Jeff Winner: Three Willow Park interview

Layne Weiss recently wrote a fine article for the L.A. Weekly about Raymond Scott's electronic music years. The online version can be read at "Can Synthesizers Compose Music? Nearly 50 Years Ago, This One Could."

Weiss conducted many interviews, and editorial space invariably limits each respondent to a few choice quotes. Last week we posted the full interview with Irwin Chusid, the co-producer of Three Willow Park, the new 3-LP/2-CD collection of vintage, previously unissued Scott electronica. This week we offer the complete interview with Three Willow Park Associate Producer Jeff Winner (who also co-produced Manhattan Research Inc., 3WP's Scott electronica predecessor).

Layne Weiss: When and where did Raymond Scott develop his Electronium?

Jeff Winner: Raymond had been developing Electroniums out of the public eye throughout the 1950s. He moved to L.A. in 1971. He was nearing his mid-60s, had lived his life in New York, and was willing to make a major transition at that stage. He had his third wife, Mitzi, and this was like a whole new start. It ended up being his final professional gig because his health declined during the period.

LW: How long did he work before his health started declining?

JW: He started having heart trouble much earlier—in the 1950s. Later he had a stroke and heart attacks. The span of his Motown tenure was about 7 or 8 years from the time he started working for them under contract on Long Island, through moving west and getting a full-time position with Motown. They retired him around 1977 because of his health.

LW: When did he start working for Motown and how did he transition to L.A.?

JW: In 1969 he started to publicize the Electronium. In 1970, Motown owner Berry Gordy and his entourage arrived at Scott's Three Willow Park facility in Farmingdale, Long Island, to see a demonstration of what was, at the time, Scott's state-of-the-art Electronium.  Gordy was so impressed that he said, “Here’s a check for $10,000 to get started and build one for me.”  That one that you see in the color photograph with the beautiful wooden cabinet—that’s the one Raymond made specifically for Motown.

When Gordy ordered the Motown Electronium, he stipulated that it was his exclusive thing. Raymond was not allowed to publicize the deal. He couldn’t even put out a press release declaring that he was employed by Motown. Gordy did not want word to leak out that hits were being generated by robots. Raymond was disappointed about that.

LW: When did all this info start coming out?

JW: It was known prior to Scott's death but hadn’t been explored in detail. We’ve made attempts over the years to reach Gordy for comment, but we’ve received only polite declines. Hopefully someday that will change. We would love to know how he looks back on it now.

LW: How did the other Motown artists react or warm up to Scott being there?

JW: Some of the studio musicians — when they attempted to play along with the machine, they didn’t like it. They resented being told to play to a click-track. Musicians rely upon their own internal metronomes, their own sense of rhythm—and these guys were amazing instrumentalists. For them to be asked to subordinate their talent to a machine, to let the machine be a leader, some resented that. On the other hand, Michael Jackson was fascinated by the Electronium and wanted to use it. He thought it was the future. And he was right.

Others? We don’t know. We don’t have any evidence. But we know they were all working at the same facility and we presume that everybody was at least given the opportunity to utilize the technologies that they were bringing in. This all goes to a broader wave of technology. Motown had the best recording equipment. As a new decade was dawning, there was buzz about this new thing called a "synthesizer." In 1970 Bob Moog introduced the Minimoog to the consumer market. Now you had a mobile synth. It could go from city to city on tour for the first time. That was the year when the revolution really coalesced in terms of technology, availability, price and mobility. It’s probably not a coincidence that Gordy was so turned-on by the Electronium at the same time.

LW: Do you have any examples of artists that weren’t thrilled by working with Scott or his Electronium.

JW: Hoby Cook, an engineer, was assigned to record session musicians playing along with the Electronium. He provided an interesting chronicle of the musicians rebelling against the experiment. We don’t know of any high-profile names who were not into it. People have speculated that Stevie Wonder would be a logical candidate to use it because he loves synthesizers. I don’t think he was a great prospect. For one thing, he’s blind and probably couldn't operate it. Second, the main purpose of the Electronium was to come up with its own bass-line, grooves, melodies, and rhythms. The last thing Stevie Wonder needed was help generating musical ideas.

ABOVE: Berry Gordy in Motown studio, 1960s.

LW: Scott was not very sociable and he created a lot of his devices so he wouldn’t have to deal with people. What was it like for him having to meet people and demonstrate how this stuff worked?

JW: He was fine with that — as long as there was something technical as a conduit. He was probably in his element at Motown. He respected them, and they respected him. They were fascinated by the technology and he was the grand wizard who was trying to give them the keys to the future. He taught studio staff at Motown how to help musicians use the device, so he wouldn't have to keep doing it. He was happier in that later stage of life because he was doing what he really wanted to do. He explained that in a letter to a fan in 1980. He said it was the most enjoyable time of his life, working with electronic instruments and electronic music.

LW: Do you know how his family felt about relocating?

JW: Mitzi, his third wife, loved him tremendously and she would have done anything he wanted. It was a lot of work for her because he was so busy — it fell on her to return to Three Willow Park to close down the facility. He had tons of equipment, and tape reels, and she had to sell some of it. Some stuff got thrown away and the rest of it she had transported to L.A. They rented a furnished apartment while Gordy and Raymond worked at Gordy’s house. He had an amazing estate in Bel-Air. They set up a laboratory above the garage, and then it all got moved to the Motown facility. Mitzi and Raymond eventually settled in Van Nuys. After Raymond passed in 1994, Mitzi moved to Santa Clarita. Raymond stayed in California for the rest of his life. He loved the weather and taking long drives through the mountains and near the coast.

LW: Was he star-struck at all?

JW: Not at all. He'd been a celebrity since he was young. He wrote his first hit tune at age 25. His older brother was a CBS radio star before he was. He rubbed elbows with everybody from Sinatra and Crosby to Smoky Robinson, Michael Jackson and Diana Ross. He collaborated with Jim Henson. He was part of the 20th century entertainment industry. There were artists he admired, but the idea of him, say, asking for an autograph seems unfathomable. He was a celebrity himself, but he didn’t go out and party with other stars. He was a recluse who focused on work.

LW: Were Raymond and Gordy friends or was it just professional?

JW: They got along great. Raymond was at his house from 9 to 5 every day. They were close the first couple of years. Gordy was aware of Scott's early career as a hit-maker, starting in the 1930s. Gordy was aware that he was getting not just a technological wizard, but a guy who knew how to compose hit tunes. And of course Scott was aware of Gordy’s amazing accomplishments. In the 1960s Motown was unstoppable. They dominated the pop charts. Even in the ‘70s they continued to be potent with the Jackson 5, Diana Ross, Stevie Wonder, Earth, Wind & Fire, and Marvin Gaye.

ABOVE: 2-CD and 3-LP versions of 'Three Willow Park'

LW: How about some info on the new album, 'Three Willow Park'?

JW: This is the first time the public will be hearing the Motown Electronium. The span of the recordings is from 1961 to 1971, so there’s material that pre-dates the Motown Electronium, when Raymond was still living in Manhasset, New York, in a giant 32-room mansion, with then-wife Dorothy Collins. There’s material from #3 Willow Park after he moved there in 1965. And there's some material from the early part of his Motown tenure in L.A. through 1971. So the 1970-’71 recordings feature the Motown Electronium. All prior recordings with the Electronium feature earlier versions of the device. It’s a progression in terms of chronology — from the material on Manhattan Research Inc. to Three Willow Park.

The non-working Motown Electronium was purchased in 1996, a couple of years after Scott passed away, by Mark Mothersbaugh of Devo. He’s also a successful film composer. He's done Wes Anderson movies and Disney projects, such as The Lego Movie. Mark kept the Electronium in his L.A. studio for a long time. It was moved to Portland for restoration. It’s now coming back to L.A. because a new restoration attempt is being undertaken by Brian Kehew. Among many other roles, he’s a keyboard tech for The Who. He’s working with Wally de Backer (a.k.a. Gotye), who’s providing financial assistance.

Irwin Chusid: Three Willow Park interview

Layne Weiss recently wrote a fine article for the L.A. Weekly about Raymond Scott's electronic music years. The print version, genuflecting to Thomas Edison, bears the clever title "The Wizard of Willow Park." The original online title, "In the '70s, Motown Hired a Synth Wizard to Build Them a Songwriting Machine," was later changed to "Can Synthesizers Compose Music? Nearly 50 Years Ago, This One Could."

Weiss interviewed me two months before the release of Three Willow Park, the new 3-LP/2-CD collection of vintage, previously unissued Scott electronica, which I co-produced with Gert-Jan Blom (with Jeff Winner as Associate Producer). Weiss conducted many interviews, and editorial space invariably limits each respondent to a few choice quotes. Below are the full replies I sent to Weiss, provided here for additional background on the development of Three Willow Park.

Layne Weiss: Why is now the time to release this project? 

Irwin Chusid: Because we finally finished it. The followup to Manhattan Research Inc. (released in 2000) was long overdue, but for a number of reasons, was repeatedly postponed. The additional time made it a better project because we were able to collect more material and construct a more detailed chronicle about Scott’s years at Three Willow Park Center. 

LW: What should listeners expect as far as sounds, music, and content, and why is this release special for Raymond's family, you, Gert-Jan, Jeff, and for music fans in general?

IC: It’s different than MRI. For one thing, it features the sounds made on Scott's Motown-era Electronium, which was the "Mark 2," refined version. There was no "Mo-tronium" on MRI. An earlier, less-refined incarnation was featured. That album also included dozens of early TV and radio commercials with electronic music and effects soundtracks. There are no commercials on 3WP, although there are a handful of sound effects from ads. 3WP features a wide array of music and sounds. Some are accessible and pleasant. Others will peel layers off your cerebral cortex. We tried to program the tracks for constant surprises. Everything we used we consider listenable. There's something for everyone, but we can’t guarantee that everyone will enjoy it all. The moods range from relaxing to brutal. 

LW: Can you explain the significance of the title? Maybe give some insight on Raymond's life at Three Willow Park or just explain what it was and why it's so important. 

IC: Number 3 Willow Park Center was a large rental bunker in an industrial development in Farmingdale, New York. Built in the early 1960s, Willow Park Center was a patch of suburban real estate where corporations based headquarters, small companies leased office space, and manufacturers kept warehouses. Sometime after the summer 1964 demise of his marriage to singer Dorothy Collins, Scott moved to Willow Park to set up his electronic music lab. When I say "moved," I mean "moved in." He lived there. Residential occupancy wasn't legal under local zoning regulations, but Scott paid his rent and outfoxed the lease police. It was at Three Willow Park that he built the Electronium. He was living there when he met and married his third wife, Mitzi—who besides cooking his meals, kept his books and learned how to solder circuitry. She’s an important part of the story, and there’s a photo of her on the back of the LP set. This makeshift compound remained Scott's atelier and bedroom until around 1971, after which Raymond and Mitzi decamped for Los Angeles, where he went to work for Berry Gordy at MoWest.

LW: Why did you choose these particular ten years of music (1961-1971) to have on the album?

IC: It's a nice, tidy decade. The earliest tracks we considered date from 1961. Anything earlier was on MRI, whose oldest track dates from 1953. The recordings on 3WP end at 1971, because in 1972 Scott went to work for Motown. Gordy hired him to develop the Electronium—which composed by itself using programmed intelligence—as an "idea generator." In particular, the Electronium was great at improvising complex melodies and rhythms. While Scott was employed there he was under a strict gag order. Motown contractually prohibited him from publicizing the nature of his employment. They were worried that their fans might think that Motown’s instrumental stylings were being performed by “Mo-bots.” As far as we know, the Electronium was never used on any Motown recordings, but we know that a young Michael Jackson would occasionally drop in Scott’s on-site studio to watch the device work. We don't have a direct quote, but someone who worked there with Scott said Jackson was quite excited by the machine's possibilities. 

LW: Has this music been previously unheard by the public? How do you feel about releasing it?

IC: 98% of the music on 3WP has never been publicly circulated, altho a few pieces have been played on the radio or previewed for inquiring journalists.  

LW: Where will people be able to buy it?

IC: Anywhere fine music is sold. We have expressly forbid it to be sold where bad music is purveyed.  3WP will be available as a 3-LP set, 2-CD package, and digital. We will also offer a free 349-page downloadable pdf consisting of documents, photos, and ephemera chronicling Scott’s career in electronic music and engineering.

A memorial anniversary

Raymond Scott passed away 21 years ago today, at the age of 85. His death was not unexpected—he had been stroke-ridden since 1987, and his wife Mitzi had struggled for years as his caretaker at their home in Van Nuys. The above photo was taken in 1985, when Raymond was 76 or 77; he had already suffered a series of heart attacks and had not worked professionally in almost a decade.

If I recall correctly, at some point in late 1993 or early '94 Raymond was admitted to a nursing home in North Hills, where he suffered a fall, broke his hip, and eventually contracted a fatal bout of pneumonia. I was notified by Mitzi, and promised to get word to the press.

Memories are vivid, because 1994 was a brutal winter in the northeast; in early February I was largely housebound due to extraordinary accumulations of snow and ghastly banks of ice around town. The internet had not yet become a medium of instantaneous communication—no Facebook, no Twitter, no Instagram, no blogs. I didn't even have an email (huh?) account. There were only two options for getting the news out: telephone and fax. I spent the entire day calling, informing, leaving messages, fielding incoming calls, writing obit drafts, and faxing. Coverage was extensive: the New York Times (reproduced below); Los Angeles Times; Billboard; Variety; and the wire services. 

Despite my best attempts to present facts to the media, one erroneous claim made it into many stories, and that untruth remains in circulation to this day. It is plainly evidenced in the NYT headline: "a Composer for Cartoons."    

New video — Mitzi Scott: "An American Girl on the Home Front"

Today would have been Mitzi Scott's 94th birthday, and in her honor I've uploaded a superb mini-documentary — watch it here <<<

Warner Bros. produced the movie, MOLLY: AN AMERICAN GIRL ON THE HOME FRONT, as part of the American Girl series. Molly is a young aspiring dancer in a small midwestern town during World War II, who passionately wants to win the starring role of "Miss Victory" in her grade school's Christmas gala tap dance review. (Cast includes Molly Ringwald.) For the DVD, they searched for an entertainer from those years, and were lucky to find Mitzi, Raymond Scott's 3rd wife: "A compelling documentary featuring Mitzi Scott, an 88-year-old former USO dancer and hostess, relaying her personal history of dancing at home and with soldiers on leave, making something personal and dear to her — dance — into the ultimate patriotic act."

The 2nd part of this Vimeo video is an excerpt from the full-length documentary film, DECONSTRUCTING DAD, with Mitzi remembering her first date with — and marriage to — Raymond Scott. [DVD info: ScottDoc.com]

Both clips were screened at the reception following Mitzi's memorial service on June 22, 2012.

Mitzi Scott (July 18, 1918 - May 3, 2012)

Mitzi Scott passed away in Santa Clarita, CA, on May 3, 2012, at age 93. She was the widow of legendary composer, jazz bandleader and electronic music pioneer Raymond Scott.

Born Mathilde Waldman, on July 18, 1918, in New York City to Muriel and Arthur Waldman, she grew up in the city, where she started dancing at age 10, thus developing a lifelong passion.

From 1937-43 Mitzi was part of the Roxyette troupe at the famed Roxy Theater on West 50th Street. In 1943 she first appeared on Broadway, and eventually performed in the musicals Star and Garter (with Gypsy Rose Lee), Something for the Boys (with Ethel Merman), and the road company of Let's Face It (with Benny Rubin). She performed on three national USO tours, headlined by Bing Crosby, Jackie Cooper, Phil Silvers, Martha Raye, and James Cagney.

In 1946 she married Hewitt Clay Curtis. The marriage dissolved a year and a half later, after which she sold advertising for the Miami Daily News and the Long Island Star-Journal. She became a dance instructor for the world-renowned Arthur Murray Dance Studios, and then served as a District Manager for Avon Cosmetics.
     
Mitzi was introduced to Raymond Scott in July 1966, and they were married in January 1967. (It was Mitzi's second marriage, Raymond's third.) She lived with Scott in Farmingdale, Long Island, at Willow Park, a sprawling suburban industrial park where Scott rented a large space that he had fashioned into a home and electronics lab. Mitzi undertook the administration of Scott's businesses during a period when he was inventing now-historic electronic instruments and The Electronium, a machine that composed using artificial intelligence. When Scott was hired by Berry Gordy to work for Motown in 1971, the couple relocated to Los Angeles, with Mitzi coordinating most of the cross-country logistics.

In retirement, Scott suffered a major stroke in 1987, which eventually caused severe financial hardship for the couple. Mitzi nursed Raymond almost singlehandedly in their Van Nuys home until his death in February 1994, at age 85. Shortly after her husband's death, Mitzi donated his extensive collection of over 3,000 personally recorded discs and tapes, covering his career from 1932-1987, to the Marr Sound Archives at the University of Missouri, Kansas City. She sold Raymond's no-longer functioning Electronium to Devo's Mark Mothersbaugh in 1996, amid a resurgence of interest in her late husband's music and legacy.

In 1997, Mitzi moved to Santa Clarita and joined a troupe of former professional dancers called the Gingersnaps.  She was active in several charitable organizations, including Mes Amis, the North Hollywood Women’s Club, the Women’s Canadian Club and the Hope is Forever Foundation (City of Hope), for which she served as an officer. She was a member of the Sages group at St. Stephen’s Episcopal Church.

She was a passionate animal lover, and regularly took in stray dogs and cats, and adopted rescue animals. In 2007 the National Wildlife Federation designated her back yard as a certified wildlife habitat. She told the Santa Clarita Signal, "Everybody who has a backyard ought to take care of the wildlife. It's very soothing to look out your window and see butterflies and birds."

Mrs. Scott is survived by four stepchildren: Carrie Makover, Stan Warnow, Deborah Scott Studebaker, and Elizabeth Adams, as well as fourteen grandchildren.

A memorial service will be held on Friday, June 22, 11:00 am, at St. Stephen’s Episcopal Church, 24901 Orchard Village Road, Santa Clarita. A reception will follow in the church hall. The service is open to the public.

In lieu of cards and flowers, her family has requested that donations be made in the name of Mitzi Scott to City of Hope (via check payable to "Hope is Forever," mailed to Hope is Forever, c/o Chick Benveniste, 409 Meadows Drive, Glendale CA 91202), or online to the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.

Mail for Mrs. Raymond Scott

Dear Friends,

It is with great sadness that we report Raymond Scott's 93 year-old widow, Mitzi, is in the final stages of her battle with cancer. Receiving cards and letters means a lot to her — as Deb, Raymond's daughter says, "Mitzi really does live for the mail!" 

Please send cards and letters to:

Mitzi Scott
Summerhill Villa
24431 Lyons Avenue
Apt. 226
Santa Clarita, CA  91321
USA

We and the Scott/Warnow family appreciate your support and concern.

—Jeff Winner & Irwin Chusid,
The Raymond Scott Archives

Happy Birthday, Mitzi Scott

Everything's fine, two years later. Happy 92nd, to the beautiful Mrs. Scott.

historic paper

A classy piece of ephemera: blank stationery from Scott's electronic music lab, Manhattan Research, Inc., ca. 1960s. At the time, Scott lived in a Long Island industrial development, Willow Park, Farmingdale, New York. Reams of this stationery were still on hand at the time of Scott's death in 1994. For years my correspondence from Mitzi Scott (then living in Los Angeles) arrived on these sorts of artifacts.

Mrs. Raymond Scott at 90

Mitzi Scott belongs to a generation among whom it is considered improper to give a woman's age. However, we've been advised by her family that she won't mind us revealing that she turns 90 today. What we won't divulge is her birth name. Just call her "Mitzi."

Mitzi and Raymond met in July 1966—he was recently divorced from his second wife, Dorothy Collins—and they were married six months later. That Raymond was an idiosyncratic man obsessed with music and technology was a fact of their marriage. They lived together at Three Willow Park, a Long Island industrial development which Raymond was comfortable calling home.

"He would come into the living quarters for lunch, and I would put his lunch on the table and go back to the kitchen to get my lunch," Mitzi recalled. "By the time I returned to the table, he was gone. He was back in the lab.

"If he awoke at four in the morning and had a great idea, he would get up. Then he might work until 7:00 or 8:00 or 9:00 in the morning, and then go back to bed. One night I woke up—it was around three or four in the morning--and he was hanging over the side of the bed reading some notes, with the lamp on the floor so he wouldn’t wake me up."

Not content merely having Mitzi prepare lunch, Raymond recruited her for projects. "Even before we got married, he had me wiring," she laughed. "He taught me soldering, and to attach the red wire to the blue wire, and the yellow wire to the green wire. I didn’t like doing it—but I got pretty good at it."

Of course living with Scott meant music was part of the package—although it might not be Mozart or Chopin.

"We would be having lunch, with the Electronium on in the next room," she recalled. "He would just leave it on—it was a self-working machine. It composed and performed at the same time. Sometimes it would play something lovely, and I would say, 'Oh my, isn’t that a pretty phrase!' And it would repeat it as though it had heard me and said, 'Well, if you like it that much, I’ll play it again!' It was so out of this world."

When Raymond was hired by Berry Gordy to work for Motown in 1972, Mitzi oversaw the move to Los Angeles. They settled in Van Nuys, remaining in the same home on Valerio Street until Raymond's death in 1994. Two years later she sold the house and moved to Santa Clarita.

Besides living with and taking care of an eccentric musical genius, over the years Mitzi also took in dozens of stray dogs and cats, many rescued from local shelters.

Mitzi was a dancer in the 1940s. Here's a publicity photo from back in the day. She still dances—not professionally, but with a group of spry senior gals.

Thanks to Bianca Bob for 1993 living room photo above.